The two-state solution is inevitable to end the war between Israel and Palestine, France says. Nicolas de Rivière, France’s ambassador to the United Nations, told PassBlue that the last two decades should have been used to implement the peace process based on the Oslo Accords, rather than let the initiatives gather dust.
“There were hopes in the early 90s, after the first Gulf War and then the meeting in the White House between Arafat and Rabin,” de Rivière said, referencing the agreement between Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s prime minister at the time (before he was assassinated in 1995); and Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian political leader. In an interview with PassBlue on Dec. 28, the ambassador said the last 20 years “have not been encouraging.”
France, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, leads the body as rotating president in January. De Rivière said that returning peace to Gaza will be the headliner of its presidency while he expressed frustration over the indiscriminate killing of women and children by the Israeli Defense Forces since they began their retaliatory attack on Hamas for its Oct. 7 atrocities on Israel’s soil.
As part of the Oslo Accords, the Israeli government and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), agreed to a two-state solution when the pacts were signed, respectively, in Washington in 1993 and in 1995 in Taba, Egypt. The agreements established the Palestinian National Authority (PA), which was given limited governing responsibility of Gaza and the West Bank, while Israel agreed to gradually cede territorial powers to the PA over time. The Oslo process also aimed to create a peace treaty, based on UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.
Negotiations to bring about an independent Palestinian state halted in the 2000s, however, after a series of events occurred amid regional unrest and distrust from both Israelis and Palestinians. But de Rivière said that Israel’s normalization agreements – known as the Abraham Accords — with other regional nations, such as the United Arab Emirates, without consideration for Palestine’s status aggravated hostilities.
Egypt and Jordan entered into normalization agreements with Israel in 1979 and 1994, respectively. This action broke consensus among most other Mideast countries who were withholding legal recognition of Israel until it completely stopped occupying Palestinian territory and established a two-state solution. In 2020, the UAE and Bahrain formally normalized their relationships with Israel under the Abraham Accords, brokered by the United States. Shortly thereafter, Morocco, which occupies the disputed enclave of Western Sahara, re-established a trade relationship with Israel.
“There has always been this desire for statehood, and it has to be addressed,” de Rivière said. “What we have been witnessing in the last years is the total absence of any Middle East peace process since 2014, and in a recent period of times, normalization agreements between Israel and several Arab countries, which is good, but which has been done at the expense of the Palestinian state. Let’s call a cat a cat.”
Israel is facing intensifying criticism — even from its staunchest supporters — over its military strategy in Gaza since it launched the ground and aerial bombardment in the strip, killing approximately 21,000 people so far, mostly women and children, according to Gazan health ministry officials. The US and many Western European allies have pitched themselves against any Security Council resolution that might lead to a ceasefire in Gaza.
The US vetoed two resolutions since Oct. 7, one proposed by Brazil and the other by the UAE, aiming to stop if not pause the fighting to enable desperately needed humanitarian aid into Gaza. Britain, on the other hand, has vetoed or abstained in solidarity with the US in the Council, indirectly supporting Israel. But the rising civilian death toll and constant bombardment of basic infrastructure in Gaza, including UN facilities and hospitals, slow-walking aid deliveries and forcing civilians to shelter in shrinking, lethal spaces is putting Israel and its close allies on rocky ground.
US President Joe Biden, whose government continues to back Israel’s right to self-defense in the war, criticized at one point the “indiscriminate bombing” by the IDF on civilians. (Such actions can be considered a war crime, experts say.) US Senator Bernie Sanders (Independent, Vt.) condemned Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the floor of the Senate. This position from US leaders marks a steady evolution from the country’s early stand in the weeks immediately after the Hamas attacks. For Sanders, it is an indictment of Netanyahu’s strategy since Israel began retaliating.
“But while it is clear that Israel has the absolute right to respond militarily against a brutal terrorist attack,” Sanders told his fellow senators, “it is also clear that Netanyahu’s right-wing, extremist government is waging that war in a deeply reckless and immoral way. A just cause for war does not excuse atrocities in the conduct of that war.”
Israel has killed not only tens of thousands of people in its goal of wiping out Hamas, but it has also left 55,603 injured civilians as well as nearly one million people homeless, nearly half of Gaza’s population. Despite the UN’s encumbered effort to get basic goods to the people in Gaza, the World Food Program said that half of its residents were starving.
The Israeli government denies attacking civilians while defending its actions in the enclave. Michael Herzog, an Israeli ambassador and former brigadier general, said that Israel’s military strategy has been successful and that it would not stop until Hamas has been annihilated.
De Rivière described Israel’s military operation in Gaza as “very broad and massive,” adding that it violates the Geneva Conventions, which defines rules of war. The South African government on Dec. 29 applied to the Hague-based International Court of Justice, accusing Israel of committing acts synonymous with genocide in Gaza.
“What we are witnessing is a broad and massive military operation on the Gaza strip, and it is obvious that the number of civilian casualties is way too high,” de Rivière said. “Two-thirds of the casualties are children, women and elderly. This is unacceptable.”
When de Rivière was asked by a reporter at a briefing on Jan. 2 whether there was such a thing as a “clean war,” he said: “Less dirty.”
Israeli forces have also attacked aid workers and journalists in the enclave. Sixty-nine journalists have been killed in the war, and 144 UN staffers have also been killed by the IDF. On Dec. 28, Israeli forces shot a UN armored vehicle heading to Rafah, in Gaza, after delivering humanitarian materials to a UN relief agency (Unrwa) facility in northern Gaza, UN officials said.
Despite a Council resolution on Dec. 22 that approved fast-tracking humanitarian aid into Gaza, not enough goods are reaching the hungry and destitute. As de Rivière said on Jan. 2, he was not sure the resolution’s goal or a similar one authorized by the Council in November “have been implemented.” (On Jan. 2, the UN spokesperson told reporters that it’s still “extremely difficult” for the organization to get aid in. “And especially when the people that are delivering this aid are also themselves suffering from this displacement and are under extreme hardship.”)
A ministerial meeting in the Council on Jan. 23 will focus on Gaza and the region. An emergency Council meeting on Red Sea maritime issues — the Houthis’ actions in the region — is set up for Jan. 3.
De Rivière told PassBlue about the overall challenge of the Gaza war from the Council’s viewpoint: “What we will do is try to find a compromise among the 15 members of the Council. There are too many formalities in the Security Council, where you just listen to 15 consecutive national positions — which is useful but insufficient. We will try to encourage compromise and negotiations.”
Each month, PassBlue profiles UN ambassadors as their countries assume the Council presidency. This month, we explore France’s stance on the Gaza war, which began on Oct. 7, on Soundcloud.
Ambassador de Rivière spoke to PassBlue on Dec. 28. His comments have been edited and condensed for clarity.
PassBlue: What is your opinion of the UN’s current peacekeeping model, given its numerous failures in major conflicts around the world? I think the UN is more necessary than ever. We don’t have so many tools at our disposal. The UN remains the only venue where every country in the world is represented as a place where we can see and improvise and provide solutions that would resolve tensions and crises. The Security Council has always been divided. It remains divided. It’s not a reason to give up. We need the Security Council, the UN and peacekeeping.
PassBlue: Will France do anything to address the current Council disunity, particularly on Gaza? What we would do is try to find compromise among the 15 members. There are different interests, objectives, sometimes values, but what should unite us is the UN Charter, the mandate of the Council and the desire to implement these mandates to promote peace and security. There are too many formalities in the Council. Too many meetings, where you just listen to 15 consecutive national positions, which is by the way, useful but totally insufficient. You need out of these 15 national positions to achieve one single strategy.
PassBlue: When the Council approved last fall a multinational force led by Kenya to be sent to Haiti to neutralize the deadly dominance of gangs in the capital, one concern was that the Kenyan government had not sought the approval back home before offering itself to the Council to take on such a role in Haiti. Given the delay caused by missing that first crucial step, what do you think about the the way forward? The situation has been bad for many years, but now it’s worse. So there is an obvious need for the UN to help, and that’s why the Security Council decided long ago to launch this multinational force. We all have to thank Kenya for the decision to send police to Haiti. So, I don’t have any comments about Kenyan politics and why it took so long. It seems now that things are possible, there are preparations for deployment. We all need to help Kenya. We need to find money to fund the operation. We need more police. Kenya cannot be the only one. I think we certainly need the countries of the region to contribute as well.
PassBlue: What is France’s plan for Gaza during your presidency? We certainly need more humanitarian aid for the people in Gaza. We need to find a way to stop this war as soon as possible. It should be clear that Israel has a right to [take] actions against terrorists but not the right to continue actions against the civilians. And I think what we are witnessing is indiscriminate bombing, as President Biden himself recognized. Once this phase is over, and I’m afraid it will last more than a couple of days, unfortunately, we need to have a serious conversation on, No. 1, what to do with Gaza. Who will be in charge? No. 2, how to deal with the aspiration of Palestine for statehood.
PassBlue: Let’s unbundle some of the things you have just said. On is, what is the future of Gaza? The other is Palestinians’ aspiration to statehood. What is the future of Gaza when the bombings stop?Gaza will remain where it is, the Palestinian population of Gaza will mainly remain there. There are things which will not be acceptable anymore: Hamas leadership on Gaza; the threats coming from Gaza should be resolved. On the other side, it’s pretty clear that you cannot have the Gaza strip administered by Israel itself, and I’m not sure Israel is interested. So, you need to find a solution where you can have a contribution from Arab neighbors to secure Gaza. You need step by step to make sure that you have the Gaza strip administered by Palestinian themselves, not Hamas. It can be the Palestinian authorities or renewed Palestinian leadership, which would be peaceful and democratic. There are very many questions asked, I think it’s not too early to start to think about that. We need to help the Palestinians to move away from Hamas. We need to help the Palestinian Authority to reform itself because it has been very weak, corrupt, divided. So we need proper governance for Gaza, which probably will have to be Palestinian led.
PassBlue: How will France advocate for a two-state solution? Does it have a chance? So, everybody’s mentioning that, but one thing is to proclaim this two-state solution as an objective and another is to make it happen. There were hopes in the early 90 that were encouraging, and to tell you the truth, the last 20 years have not been encouraging. What we should certainly do is to be open to encourage the two sides to negotiate, to sit at the table without preconditions. This crisis is another example that the aspiration of Palestine to statehood is a fact. There’s this belief that it could just be eliminated or just resolved with trade agreements or investment or high-tech startups in the West Bank. That is an illusion. What we have been witnessing is the total absence of any Middle East peace process since 2014, and in recent times, normalization agreements between Israel and a number of Arab countries, which is good, but which has been done at the expense of the Palestinian state. Let’s call a cat a cat.
PassBlue: Just a bit of follow up. For the two-state solution to happen, the two sides must come to a table to have a conversation. Prime Minister Netanyahu once said that won’t happen in his administration. On the Palestinian side, there is no government to represent the people. So, what’s the way forward? I think you’re right. I think there are many obstacles, I think there is Oct. 7, which is an obstacle because there will probably be less confidence among the parties to negotiate. It should also be a wake-up call that Palestinian statehood aspiration remains. There is probably this lack of enthusiasm within the Israeli government. There is also what’s happening in the West Bank: settlements, which make the two-state solution less feasible. But I think what we need is a negotiation. And we need to find a way to give hope to the Palestinian people. They cannot be second-class people with no state, no self-governance.
PassBlue: What will be your signature events in the Council in January besides discussions on Gaza? We will, of course, discuss Ukraine because while the situation in Gaza is bad, the Russian Air Force and Russian armies continue to bomb regions in Ukraine while lecturing the rest of the Security Council on international humanitarian law in Gaza on a daily basis. The double standard is probably there. We will also discuss Syria, Africa, Cyprus, Sudan.s
PassBlue: France is one of the few big Western countries in the UN that has unequivocally said that the killing in Gaza must stop. It’s France who has consistently demanded a ceasefire. What’s your relationship with Israel, other European countries and the US, who have continued to stand by Israel? France has always been a friend of Israel, and we remain a friend of Israel. I’m a good friend of the permanent representative of Israel [Gilad Erdan]. We strongly condemned what happened three months ago. But frankly, I don’t see any contradiction between support for Israel to make sure that this very particular country remains safe and the need to abide by international law. You can kill terrorists, but you don’t kill children and women. That’s it.
PassBlue: Finally, what would you rather be doing if not your work in the foreign service? I think I’m happy to do that. But I would love to travel by myself and discover other regions of the world that I still don’t know. Probably, I will certainly be able to do it at some stage. Right now, I’m supposed to do this [diplomacy]. It’s interesting. It’s a challenge.
France’s ambassador to the UN: Nicolas de Rivière
Languages: French, English
Education: LL.B., University of Paris (1985); diploma, École Nationale d’Administration (ENA, or National School of Administration)
His story, briefly: De Rivière, 60, is a lawyer turned diplomat born in Paris. He attended the University of Paris, graduating in 1985. In 1992, he passed his exams at ENA, the highly selective academy that provides an entrée to the upper echelon in the French private sector or civil service. Before his appointment as permanent representative of France to the UN, by President Emmanuel Macron in July 2019, the ambassador was director-general of Political and Security Affairs at the Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs from 2014 to 2019. Previously, he worked in the UN/International Organizations section of the ministry from 2011-2014. He was also deputy permanent representative, from 2009-2010, at the French mission to the UN (having been based at the mission since 2005). From 2002-2005, he served consecutively as an economic counselor on Asian and American (and North American) affairs to two foreign ministers: Dominique de Villepin and Michel Barnier. De Rivière took a one-year break from the foreign affairs ministry (2001-2002) to become vice president of the now-defunct Paris-based aerospace company, EADS-Astrium. Early in his diplomatic career, he was posted to the French mission in The Hague as first secretary. In 1997, he was asked by his government to hold a similar position with the French embassy in Washington.
One of his greatest career accomplishments, he says, was acting as France’s negotiator on the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or the Iran deal, which the United States withdrew from in 2018 under the Trump administration. President Biden restarted talks with Iran to rejoin the deal, but the effort failed.
Country Profile
Head of State: Emmanuel Macron (President)
Foreign Affairs Minister: Catherine Colonna
Type of Government: Presidential constitutional republic
Year France Joined the UN: 1945
Years in the Security Council: One of the five permanent members (with Britain, China, Russia, and the US)
Population: 67 million
Carbon emissions: 4.5 metric tons per capita (2019); by comparison, US, 14.7
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Damilola Banjo is an award-winning staff reporter for PassBlue who has covered a wide range of topics, from Africa-centered stories to gender equality to UN peacekeeping and US-UN relations. She also oversees all video production for PassBlue. She was a Dag Hammarskjold fellow in 2023 and a Pulitzer Center postgraduate fellow in 2021. She was part of the BBC Africa team that produced the Emmy-nominated documentary, “Sex for Grades.” In addition, she worked for WFAE, an NPR affiliate in Charlotte, N.C. Banjo has a master’s of science degree from the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism and an undergraduate degree from the University of Ibadan in Nigeria.
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